Sarah's pickups restauration.

[Sarah93003]

Oi, if it's okay with you I would like to collect these photographs and the text so that I can add it to my "Technical" page of my website. It would be a benefit to anyone wanting to know what the inside of these look like, as well as any technical information that you gleen during the process.

[Mr. Bill]

Very cool thread.
I will add that the first pickup with the segmented magnets is exactly like the one I have notes on from a rewind that I did many years ago. It was on a red mid to late '60s Combo. I would guess that the second pickup is newer.

What guitar are these from?

[oigun]

Bill the second one has the same magnets, Thats what I found at further examination. I think they come from strips that you can easily break into the desired length. Anyone knows where to get them?? Till now I have used alnico humbucker magnets.

[raygun85]

I don't think they make magnets like that anymore. I've searched high and low, made numerous phone calls, and came up with zilch. We have two sources for our magnets, one overseas and one in Phoenix, AZ. I'm glad to see someone else recognizing the construction of the vintage methods. I've actually had some prospective customers (who know nothing about pickups or their construction) tell me emphatically that I am wrong, and that they know FOR A FACT that Mosrite used twelve small, individual bar magnets on each side of the coils. I've done some research on magnetic fields too. In conjunction with my knowledge of electrical currents, I believe it is safe to assume that the little ridges in the back of the magnet will make zero difference in the sound and response.

[dubtrub]

I maybe wrong in my assumption but I would guess that Semie, being extremely poor especially when I knew him around 1960, he would use what ever was available to get the job done. What was available was was Floyd's hardware and military surplus store here in Bakersfield. You could rummage through all their junk and find a gold mine if you knew what you were needing and looking for. I've always thought those small magnets were parts pulled out of old junk car generators such as the stator magnets.

[oigun]

I don't think they make magnets like that anymore. I've searched high and low, made numerous phone calls, and came up with zilch. We have two sources for our magnets, one overseas and one in Phoenix, AZ. I'm glad to see someone else recognizing the construction of the vintage methods. I've actually had some prospective customers (who know nothing about pickups or their construction) tell me emphatically that I am wrong, and that they know FOR A FACT that Mosrite used twelve small, individual bar magnets on each side of the coils. I've done some research on magnetic fields too. In conjunction with my knowledge of electrical currents, I believe it is safe to assume that the little ridges in the back of the magnet will make zero difference in the sound and response.

I think you are right Matt, me neither would think the different shape of the magnet will noticeable influence the sound.
But it will be cool to have a bunch of snap-off bar magnets!! Do you have a clue if they are ceramic or alnico?

[raygun85]

They don't look like ceramic to me. My best guess would be Alnico and it seems that most of the research done leads everyone else to believe they were Alnico. Personally, unless you were a metal expert, I think it would very difficult, if not impossible to tell exactly what grade of Alnico. My gut tells me he used Alnico V since Semie's pickups appear to loosely resemble P-90's in their structure and purpose.

I'll have to agree with Danny about Semie using whatever was available at the time. I've seen different color of wire on some coils (i.e. copper, red, green) and the different colors correspond to the heat wrap's thickness and temperature resistance. According to my research and some helpful info from Tony Hunt, I have surmised that Semie probably used 43 and 44 gauge wire most of the time. The different gauges will have a direct bearing on the total DC resistance and the resultant tone. But the size and shape of the bobbin will also have a direct bearing on the tone, and with a thicker heat wrap (like green) the coil will have less resistance as a coil the same size wound with the red wire. That would account for some of the variations in tone and output over the years.

I've designed a noiseless Mosrite pickup using multiple gauges of wire and Alnico II magnets but haven't had a chance to actually create them as of yet. I'm not sure if there would be much of a market for them. I also have plans of prototyping some blade humbuckers with Alnico V and Alnico II magnets for string-benders, but again, not sure if there is much of a market for them.

[olrocknroller]

:oops: oopsie, I jumped to conclusions!

Hmmm... I've been looking for my springboard...where did you find it?

[JimPage]

Hey--

Hope I'm talking about the right thing here, but Bob Shade of Hallmark showed me a bunch of magnets once that he said were the last ones stocked at the place Semie bought his magnets. They had grooves or segments.

He also had, from a different vendor, some flat ones that he said Semie used later, in the 1970s, I think.

I took some pictures that day, so I'll find those and post them. Bob had hundreds of both style magnets and would probably sell them to people if you asked him.

I am not a tech guy so I hope Bob can chime in here if I am talking about the wrong kind of magnets.

--Jim

[raygun85]

I always understood that Bob bought some of the NOS left over from the Mosrite factory? Either way, they're probably the same magnets (or same type of magnets) that Semie used. Since I'm 99.99% sure they won't make a difference in tone, I'll probably just stick with my magnet supplier. At this point, to use some NOS magnets from one of Semie's former suppliers would be nothing more than a novelty to me. I suppose if I get a special order I might ask Bob. But, if your observations (and Bob's claims) about Semie using flat magnets are correct then I can't justify a real need for them. It'd be cool to have a few, maybe, to put in a personal guitar or two...

What I would really love to know, conclusively, is what grade of Alnico Semie used primarily and how consistently. Given the inconsistency in the wire gauges and coils, I'd venture to say we'd probably learn the same thing regarding the magnets. According to Seymour Duncan, he believes the bobbin material makes a difference in tone - just how much difference he isn't sure. I do know that the size and shape of the coil, plus the number of windings (DC resistance) will directly influence the tone. I know that the type of magnets will make a difference (e.g. Alnico V emphasizing the highs more than Alnico II, and ceramic magnets having more string-pull, lessening sustain with more "ice-pick" highs.)