Sarah's pickups restauration.

[JimPage]

Hey, Matt--

Makes sense to me.

As I said, there are two different kinds that Bob has (that I know about from just poking around his back-room area), and when he saw me playing with a stack of the flat ones, he made me put them back EXACTLY like he had them so that it wouldn't mess up the strength or some such thing of the magnets.

The segmented ones had a different color than the flat ones, and a different shape, of course. Bob would probably know what the things are made of. The segmented ones were packed in some kind of corrugated kraft paper in batches of 100.

The color may have been from some kind of preservative for all I know. They had a dusty silvery color, to my eye, whereas the flat ones were dark gray.

--Jim

[JimPage]

Hey--

Found the iPhone pics. Here are the segmented magnets:


Here are the flat ones, which Bob said were used in later Mosrite pickups:


And here is Bob's vintage record player, which runs at about 37rpm. Can any of you old-timers guess what we were listening to that day?!??! One of two bands, and both started with a "B."


Thanks to Bob who has let me take these photos since I got my iPhone back in February. And, thanks to the American College of Cardiology, which supplies me with such a nice phone!!!

By the way, the custom Semie pickguard above the segmented magnets was also taken away from my playing with it by Bob. It goes to Lorrie Collin's famed acoustic Martin/Mosrite.

--Jim

[raygun85]

The segmented magnets look more like the ones I pulled out of the 70's humbuckers. The ridges in the ones I've seen in pickups from the 60's look a little narrower. After seeing the photo, I'd have to agree Eugen that they were probably intended to be broken off at the desired length. As for color...its really hard to judge the material based on the color. The magnets we use primarily have a dusty silvery color. But to my knowledge, the only real difference is whether or not they're left in the rough or polished (like those pretty ones that Stew Mac sells for an arm and a leg.)

As for magnet strength, yes playing with them could possibly change the strength since rubbing them against each other and other ferrous materials cause those little electrons to jump around from one object to another. You could also screw up it's orientation. But, thats why I like to purchase non-charged magnets. We just charge them before installing them usually.

[JimPage]

Hey!

So you would let me play with the magnets at your shop, unlike Bob?!?!??!?

Excellent! I will be there Saturday morning!

All kidding aside, I am not the person most folks would want in their shop. For one thing, I ain't tiny. And another thing, I have no technical aptitude or knowledge. And I am always afraid I'm going to knock over a bin full of little doodads and then spend the next two days sorting them back into their specific trays.

If I couldn't make snide humorous remarks I'm sure Bob wouldn't allow me to hang out. Or maybe it's a Sherlock Holmes/Dr. Watson situation. Holmes remarked that it was gratifying to have an associate who was always surprised by everything he did.

--Jim

[Sarah93003]

Does he always put his record player on the belt sander?

[JimPage]

Hey!

If that's what that thing is, yep! I suspect Bob has more than one belt sander, though. He has a lot of hardware.

--Jim

[Bob Shade]

Hi guy's! This is an interesting thread. I have been winding and making pickups for Mosrite guitars for years now. I have been handwinding pickups for Deke Dickerson, Larry and Lorrie Collins, ( Larry has my pickups in his Mosrite double amoung others ) Nokie Edwards and also wound about 40 pickups for Andy Moseley.

The original guitar that Gene Moles lent to Nokie Edwards in 1963 that sold recently has my pickups in it now. Also, Terry from TNM guitars has been nice enough to be using my pickups now for years. If they are good enough for Terry's guitars they are good enough for anything, Terry's guitars are second to none. Anyway, I am simply pointing out I have been doing this for a good while now to some degree of success.

The type of magnet that you use has everything to do with tone. Not only the guage of magnet wire but the type of wire as well effects the tone. How much metal you connect to the magnets also plays a part in the scheme of things.

I spoke to Semie several times and he told me that he was still using the break a way bar magnets in the later period. He claimed the magnets were almost too expensive to purchase to make pickups at that time, but he paid it, because he said it was part of the Mosrite tone! So in this case at least, Semie was not simply purchasing the least expensive magnet he could find. Judging by what the supplier wanted when I purchsed the last of them per segment, Semie was right! These thangs wuz pricey!!

The bar magnets available today sound different than the break a way bar magnets do. Anything you do in pickup design change even slightly will effect the properties of the gauss and magnetic field and to assume it will not is simply incorrect. I have to disagree as it is a simple fact.

I have experimented with the bar mags that people are using now as well as the serated style Mosrite and Hallmark used in the 60's through the later period, and large ceramic mags from Mosrite's 70's period. They all sound different.

Larry Collins did not like the sound of his Carvin pickups Semie put in his 80's Mosrite twin neck. I told him I would build him some and he said no, he ran into Seymore Duncan and Seymore wanted to make him a set. Seymore installed his pickups at the Duncan factory and later I asked Larry how he liked them. He told me the Duncans were better but still did not sound exactly like he wanted them to.

I asked him why, and he explained to me that they just did not have the same tone as the early Carvin pickups he used to use. So I asked Larry to let me try to build him the set. He agreed, so I made him 3 special wound pickups for his Mosrite. He had his local luthier install them, and he has left them in his guitar to this day. So my point is, even using the same ingredients, sometimes it takes understanding the variables and what sound the customer is looking for to reach the desired tone.

I had a long discussion with Bill Lawrence in Baltimore at an event we were at together several years ago, and he was really amazing. I learned more that day.............that guy knows his !$#!. He explained things to me that I may never have learned on my own. I thought I knew alot, but man, this guy is the deal. I was seriously impressed. He is really a genius when it comes to pickups.

I think I still have a drawing he made me still when we were discussing gauss and the theory behind it and what it does to the properties of the magnetic field. It looks pretty bizzare, if you did not know what it was you would never know. It looks more like a swarm of bees than anything else.

Anyway, this is a great subject, and it's good to see the interest from forum members! By the way, we offer and have been offering handwound pickups at competitive prices just like they did at Mosrite in all periods, 50's, 60's 70's and 80's with all of the correct period magnets if anyone is interested. Priced differently depending on the design.

We also now own Bill Grugggets old pickup winder that he wound all of his pickups on through the years, Joe Halls old pickup winder too, and my custom made winder. Take your pick. You never know, perhaps that makes a difference? You just never know.

Please feel free to contact us anytime about pickups, we would be happy to make any pickups you would like.


Bob Shade

[Bob Shade]

Oh, and yes Sarah, the belt sander is now my record player holder. You are very observant!

Bob

[panther]

The label is Beatles. Capitol Records. My guess, Beatles and the Byrds.
Dan

[raygun85]

The bar magnets available today sound different than the break a way bar magnets do. Anything you do in pickup design change even slightly will effect the properties of the gauss and magnetic field and to assume it will not is simply incorrect. I have to disagree as it is a simple fact.

Could you give us an example? I can't hear the difference. What material are the break-away magnets made of? Alnico? From what I have studied about magnetism and electricity in college, I can't see a direct correlation in the break-away design and tone. The only thing that would have any bearing is the magnetic field and the gauss (as you mentioned.) Thats why I make sure my magnets are charged at the same strength before installing them in a pickup. But could you give me a rundown of exactly how the the little ridges in the back of the magnet affect the tone?

I have a source here in California who can cast the magnets for me that way if we really want them.

For the record, I wound a set of pickups for Don Wilson last year similar to the ones we made for Mel. Anyone on the forum can ask Tim Wilson.