Potting all the other parts leaving the coil unpotted

[Tsunami Tom]

Hi. I just sent my Japan Filmore pickups to Curtis Novak who is going to rebuild them to get them closer to vintage pickups.

http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/repairs/Mosrite-Rework/

Notice that it says on this page, "I can leave it unpotted or lacquer or wax pot it if you wish."

So, I did a search and read most of the posts relating to this. I understand that Semi didn't wax pot; however, I told Curtis that it seems like there's a lot of people who have used wax potting, and that I'd like him to do the same. Well, Curtis just sent me this email:

">> yeah I can pot them if you want. Actually the thing is it is not the
coil that is the problem, it is all the other rigid parts that resonate
against one another that is the problem. If you want I can pot all the
other parts leaving the coil unpotted. <<"

I have no idea what to tell him, now. I like the idea of wax potting to reduce microphonic squeal. I thought that was all I needed to tell him, but now I'm not sure. Is wax potting everything the best or should I go with what Curtis Novak is suggesting? Any advice will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Tom

[Mr. Bill]

I've never taken a Filmore pickup apart, so I don't know how they are constructed. The pickup on his web site is a really cheap Strat pickup in a case that looks like a Mosrite cover. I'd be very surprised if the Filmore pickups are made that poorly, but who knows. Maybe one of the others here will chime in and discuss this.

As for waxing, I personally feel that it should only be done when it is needed, as it will affect the sound to some degree. Original Mosrite pickups were not waxed, Gibson P-90's weren't waxed. If Curtis feels that the construction methods he uses needs waxing then go with it, he built it, he should know best.

[sleeperNY]

For that kind of money why not just get 2 new pickups from E.F,Elliott? It will then sound as it should.

Jim

[MWaldorf]

Have you had issues with Mosrite pickups squealing? If not, I wouldn't wax pot them. If you're trying to get a vintage sound, have Curtis re-build the pickup to be the way Semie made them.

[oipunkguy]

I'm sure what he means is waxing the cover, the magnets, pretty much everything except for the coil. which I don't see the point to this. if the other components is what makes the feedback, then it would be just simpler to wax the whole pickup, and the tone would be the same as to waxing the later.

as for waxing, I've waxed all my mosrite pickups and I'm happier for it. but keep this in mind. if you are a true tone chaser, and play really clean tones on your amp, then you would probably not want to wax them. waxing will in my opinion make the pickups sound just a wee bit warmer. I use a lot of high gain when I play, so waxing is pretty much a necessity, or just listen to squel, squel, squel when I'm not strumming. when you play clean, this is not an issue for most people.

if you have any other question on waxing the pickups feel free to pm me, I'm on the forum almost everyday.

[Tsunami Tom]

Just want to let you know that Curtis Novak created a page, showing the work he did restoring my Japanese pickups:

http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/repairs/ ... -Rework-2/

My Mosrite is a blue "Ventures" "Vibramute" model made in Japan from the 1990s. Anyway, when Curtis says that the resistance was only wound to 5k and that is "more than 1/2 what they should be," he actually means to say that they are less than 1/2 what they should be. That it only had ceramic magnets also surprises me.

Anyway, just wanted to show you what he did ...

Tom

[bakeoboy]

I've never heard of anything but the coils potted.The "squeel" from pickups is the wire vibrating on the coil bobbin. I guess if you potted other stuff it would change the resonant frecuency of the parts and could effect the sound...

[Tsunami Tom]

Just an addendum, this is what Curtis Novak told me he did, regarding potting:

">> I assembled everything very tight to minimize rattles.
Once the whole thing was assembled and epoxied I installed it into my
test guitar and and turned my amp all the way up with the treble maxed
it of course squealed like a stuck pig. Next I removed all the pole
piece screws and poured hot wax into each screw hole and reinstalled the
screws while the wax was still hot. I then Tested it again with the
SAME settings and there was NO squealing. What this process
accomplishes is, it fuses all the rigid parts that resonate which was
creating the microphonics feedback loop. This stopped the squealing
without dampening the coil. <<"

Again, the page where he shows my pickups during the reconstruction process is at:

http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/repairs/ ... -Rework-2/

[MOSRITE NUMBER ONE]

hELLO
Speaking from experience original Mosrite pickups were potted after all components were assembled
They were potted with auto 2 part compound --red--green--or gray--according to what color was in the can at the time--no measuring you just poured it into the cavaty until it was full --Yes in some cases they would make a squeel but a lot of the time it was the way the amp was placed .
Original Bakersfield Mosrites did not have wax as a bonding agent. If you want a next to original pickup get BAKABOY to get one for you. Andy

[Curtis Novak]

hELLO
Speaking from experience original Mosrite pickups were potted after all components were assembled
They were potted with auto 2 part compound --red--green--or gray--according to what color was in the can at the time--no measuring you just poured it into the cavaty until it was full --Yes in some cases they would make a squeel but a lot of the time it was the way the amp was placed .
Original Bakersfield Mosrites did not have wax as a bonding agent. If you want a next to original pickup get BAKABOY to get one for you. Andy

Hey Andy,
I think what you are speaking of is the 2 part epoxy that was poured into the assembled pickup. This was more of the bonding agent than the potting, but I guess it some sense it also potted them in that is fused all the parts together so the did not resonate separately. the thing is of all the ones I have repaired the potting did get into the coil, as the shielding blocked it. Over time they got more microphonic as the brittle epoxy started breaking up and resonating independently again. I am not suggesting that wax is any sort of bonding agent like the epoxy. My wax mixture is too soft to act as a bonding agent. Rather it is there to stop the hardware from resonating independently causing the unwanted microphonics.

bakeoboy,
Sadly you are not the only one that assumed it was the coil that needed to be potted, there is much misinformation out there. Fender is one of the ONLY ones that potted their pickups. Gretsch, Gibson, De Armond, Mosrite, etc... all left their coils unpotted and just secured all the parts well. Sadly many of these pickups have had much of their HiFi qualities muted by frustrated people trying to stop the squealing. Sure potting the coil or the entire pickup stops the squealing, but it does so by reducing the sensing qualities of the coil, so in the process of making the coil not pickup the resonating hardware creating the feedback loop, it is also made the coil not near as sensitive to the strings vibration.

As for your comment " I guess if you potted other stuff it would change the resonant frequency of the parts and could effect the sound..." Speaking form much experience with pickups, the trick is much like a microphone, you want a very sensitive pickup that will pickup very subtle delicate sounds of the instrument, and NOT noise from the mike stand, or rattling housing. Yeah you could reduce the quality of the microphone until it no longer pickups up the housing but you are also seriously reducing its sensing ability to EVERYTHING else as well. To me it seems that potting a Mosrite coil rather than securing the housing for the coil is more drastically effecting how the pickups senses the strings vibration.

curtis