Mosrite prototypes

[Sarah93003]

Is there any documentation or knowledge of prototypes done by Semie? I've run across some serial number prefixes that I haven't seen documented anywhere. For example: SPK****; SPM****; ST****. Also, recently I've come across a Celebrity with the serial number of 0018. It's a beauty but it has knobs that I've never encounted and it looks like it has Grover Imperials for tuners. Any thoughts on prototypes? Any ideas on this one?

[MWaldorf]

Knobs and tuners could have been changed or been special ordered items. Regardless, that 0018 is a beaut!

[oipunkguy]

hey sarah,

i believe that the brass rails were considered prototypes originally. my mark VII models were really only in the mosrite line up for roughly two years. three years if you count the few prototype versions that came out in 71. many 70's mosrites had low serial numbers because there was so many experimental designs semie was adding to the mosrite line at that time.
One could make the argument that all of these were prototypes in some way. there were a lot of unique custom instruments that semie made, probably the most known was his 50's double necks.

[dorkrockrecords]

I think you're playing a little too fast and loose with the terminology, oipunkguy. By definition, a prototype is a preliminary model that serves as a basis for what follows; in guitar terms, a prototype is a pre-production sample used in the creation of a production model. Now can there be five prototypes before the production run begins? Sure. 100+ as you suggest in the case of the Brass Rail? Nope. Of course, if you like your semantics pliable, to quote the great Bubba Clinton, "That depends on what your definition of 'is' is."

[oipunkguy]

well maybe. i wasn't actually aware that there was that many brass rails out there. but please, don't bring clinton into the discussion, ugh.

[Sarah93003]

Coming from a manufacturing background I have to agree with Adam that a prototype is a sample or model of a thing created before production begins. The purpose of a prototype model is to study the feasibility of a design, make changes accordingly, re-evaluate if necessary.

After looking at it this way perhaps I'm going about this all wrong. The models I've come across have serial number prefixes I've never seen before and have not seen on anyone's list. So, it may simply be that I've encountered a serial number not yet documented. It may be that a custom ordered guitar could have been assigned a different prefix. For example, the Celebrity that has the prefix of SPK seems to be a normal Celebrity other than have a Bigsby tremelo instead of a Moseley trem. The Celebrity with the SPM prefix looks very normal but may have a thinner body than usual. The Celebrity with the ST prefix is black but has a wooden bridge and the fretboard looks much lighter in color than the usual rosewood, almost like a Rickenbacker fretboard.

Other than these slight variations they look like any other Celebrity. So, to call them a prototype is probably not correct. I think a better approach is to try to understand why there were so many prefixes and what their significance was. Perhaps Andy or someone else has the answer.


As for the knobs and tuners on the Celebrity in S.F. perhaps the Grover Imperials were special ordered. I could ask if there is any evidence of pre-existing screw holes on the back of the headstock. The knobs that I pictured look very similar to the knobs that I saw on an "Acoustic Black Widow" with a Celebrity body. Or someone just changed them or replaced them.

[bakeoboy]

...or that could be a guitar put assembeled from leftover parts.those look like old Radio Shack knobs.

[Deke Dickerson]

Here's my two cents on the subject: the word "Prototype" is often used in vintage guitar lingo when something is rarer or more valuable than a regular production instrument. In the Mosrite world, there are a lot more people who are out there trying to make money off Mosrites than there are actual people who love them. So, you hear the word "prototype" used all the time on weird Mosrites that don't fit the mold of the standard production model guitars, because people are trying to make them sound more special than they actually are, so they can make more money off of them.

I think that there ought to be a dichotomy of terms for these Mosrites, but not "prototype." Proper terms would include: "One-off", "Custom-built guitar", "Employee Guitars", "Spare Parts Guitars", "Jacked-Up Mosrite", and last but not least, "Mosrite Tragedy" to describe the ones that were put together by ambitious people trying to make a dishonest buck on eBay selling things that Semie would have never put his name on. I've seen examples of all of these before. The truth is, Mosrite, more than any other American guitar company, made just about as many one-off and custom built models over the years as they did production models. That, to me, is why Mosrites are interesting!

I can honestly say I have only seen two actual Mosrite prototypes, and those would be the two mid-60's Joe Maphis spruce-top models that Artie has at Front Porch, which were made for Joe and Rose Lee around '65 before the production models came out. They have a distinctly different body shape with different "horns" than the production models, but they are labeled Joe Maphis models and are obviously prototypes to the production model that came out shortly thereafter.

Anybody else seen any actual "prototypes?"

Deke

[Sarah93003]

Deke, I think you're right on the mark (no pun intended). I have never seen a prototype guitar and think of guitar design in terms of "generations" rather than prototype unless there is some radical departure from the norm, such as technology. My passion is the Celebrity model and it's variations. My intention is to learn as much about them as I can and to document what I learn so it can be shared with others. Semie was a sharing man and I think he would like that. I love Mosrite guitars and wish I could have met Semie in person. I know I would have liked him. And you're right, there are lots of unscrupulous folks out there trying to make a fast buck.

[handbrake]

Anybody else seen any actual "prototypes?"

http://mosriteforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1173

Hey Guys,

That is a 1971 Joe Maphis prototype, That model didn't make the new line up
But a beefed up version of the Combo did. The first new '71 Mark 1 standards
and the Celebrity 1's both had 2 volumes and a tone, the only one I ever saw of these
that was put together was being played by Mosrite Recording Artist "Ronnie Sessons."
I think the one in this photo is the sameone that was on eBay a while back. Might be
the one Ronnie had.
In 1972 I bought 25 complete guitars and a stack of bodies and necks from Semie,
I think I got 6 or 7 of that type of Joe Maphis bodies, Semie called them "Maphis Black
Beauties".
That little extra pickguard is a common Mosrite custom feature, All of Gene Moles custom Mosrites
had them.
Eddy

The topic was consolidated by Adam here.

http://www.mosriteforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1496