Zero Fret on my Custom 60, plus pickup magnet spacing

[leftyjay]

first off, i have a sunset green and a pearl white lefty custom 60 guitar. i feel fortunate to have 2 of the first run of lefties ever made. the guitars are really nice. just a couple issues i've noticed that seem odd. dont know if this is the norm on all custom 60s or just on the lefty guitars.

i was noticing that my cowboy chords seemed to be out of tune from one chord to the other (G, C, D, A, E, etc). plus the action is quite stiff because of the string height over the zero fret. I was looking at both my custom 60 guitars and noticed how much higher the zero fret is compared to the regular frets. both of the guitars have considerably high action at the first fret. this is usually the reason for the first fret being sharper in pitch when fretted and the action stiffness.

i have a couple other guitars with zero frets and the action is real low at the first fret. my gretsch 6120-60 has a zero fret, but the zero fret is the same size as my other frets. after doing some searching online, i notice that most zero frets are slightly higher than the regular frets, but the Custom 60s are extremely higher.

did this issue get overlooked because of it being a lefty? i'm sure i can get the fret filed down to get the correct string height over the zero fret, but i wanted to see if i was the only one that noticed it.





when i play from the 3rd fret on down the neck, the action seems good and the guitar plays in tune.

i was also wondering if the slotted fret at the top was a replacement for the slotted nut that i see on other custom 60s?

plus..., i know these guitars have a slightly wider neck than the mosrite, and the bridge matches the string span, but are the pickup magnets still the span of the original mosrite guitars? the reason i ask is, i noticed the magnet spacing doesnt match the string spacing. i dont really notice any sound drop in the strings that are not lined up with the magnets, but it seems to look off. i was able to look at these guitars at jerrys lefty guitars in sarasota fl and noticed that all the guitars he had, have the same spacing difference.

my white pearl C60 is centered better between the E strings, but does have the same spacing difference. like i said before, the guitars sound fine from string to string.



and finally, the lefty guitars came wired left handed. the only thing is, the pots are righty pots which doesnt allow the volume and tone taper to be smooth. it basicly was all or nothing. i rewired them back to righty (normal) wiring and they work fine.

just wanted to bring up these questions to see if it is just me, or is this the norm on all C60 guitars?

[Veenture]

Excellent post. I did notice the larger zero fret on my 2009 H60C righty and mentioned it in a thread somewhere when someone asked for fret measurements etc. My zero fret is only slightly larger than the rest of the frets. Mine came with a metal string guide (not a slotted fret). The strings all run near perfect over the pole pieces in both pickups. Hope this helps.

[MWaldorf]

FWIW, when I've done speed fret jobs on my guitars, I treat the zero fret the same as the others. Winds up the same height as the rest and I've got no problems. I'm not sure why the zero fret is larger on some guitars.

[Veenture]

I'm not sure why the zero fret is larger on some guitars.

Mel, my guess would be that the reasoning behind it is because the strings rest and rub on the zero fret which, by nature has to cope with more 'wear and tear' than the 'free' frets (not counting excessive string-bending on the free frets). My Mosrite Super Excellent's zero fret -which is slichtly TALLER than the rest- actually has tiny grooves in it from the strings having rubbed their way into it, proving that it was put to good use by the geet's previous owner, for one thing

[edit] Possible conclusion: taller and /or larger zero frets offer more 'mileage'

[edit2] @leftyjay. Concerning the string spacing over the pole pieces, you could have different (Mosrite mearurement?) pickups on your H60C lefty. The pole pieces on mine are not the Phillips type, but have slotted heads and are smaller

[leftyjay]

a simple way to combat the wear on the zero fret would be a stainless steel zero fret.

i havent had a chance to look closely at righty c60 guitars to see their pickups.

i want to hear what Bob has to say the reason is for the pole spacing issue.

[Bob Shade]

Hi Leftyjay and thanks for the post.

Yes we use a slightly larger piece of fretwire for the zero fret. Not by much. This allows for lower action at the bridge and space for a little fret wear. You don't know how many vintage Mosrites I have had to replace the zero fret due to them getting slots worn into them and they buzz on the first fret. You can always lower the zero fret to your liking. Just remember if you decide to, you can take it off, but you can't put it back on, so be careful.

Next, the magnet field does go all the way across the pickup further than the actual screw, so you should not have to be concerned about the magnetic field. This should have been centered better I admit and can be re-centered. We do not assemble the tailpiece, or set the lefty guitars up here at Hallmark, those are all done at Jerry's Lefty's end, so there are no strings on the guitars when we ship them to Jerry. We do the best we can on the lefty's. You mean there are lefty pots? I thought you simply wired everything in reverse. Sounds like to me all of your concerns can be rectified. I appreciate the post, we still are learning about lefty mods and doing the best we can.

Bob

[olrocknroller]

My Hitchhikers use the same size zero-fret as the others on the neck, but they are stainless. I notice that these guitars need to have a little relief set into the necks for best playability, so I think the higher zero fret would permit an absolutely straight neck, which a lot of players prefer...

[raygun85]

It's better to have a larger zero fret so that your action is more consistent from end to end. Otherwise, you will have lower action at the "nut" end and higher at the heel end of the neck. But I admit, only the most meticulous players usually notice this.

As for pole-pieces...it is true that you have a magnetic field all the way across the pickup. You could take your pole-pieces completely out of the pickup and it will still generate a signal. However, the field will be greatly concentrated at the poles. That's why they are there. And most of the time, players do notice a difference in output. I'll throw a gauss meter on it when I get time and report the difference from the pole and the area to the side of it. I'm sure it's a bit weaker, though I don't exactly know to what degree.

In Bob's defense, we have had this problem on our pickups, too. We just started correcting this problem within the last few months, updating everything to a 52mm spacing. We will be offering optional pole spacings on future orders so that folks can continue to install them in Mosrite guitars and other types as well.

As for lefty pots...absolutely. The taper will be backwards if you wire up a right-handed pot for a left-handed guitarist. I'm not sure about Stewart McDonald but you can buy lefty pots from Allparts. You can usually find that sort of stuff by buying direct at Mouser, MCM, Digikey, Newark....etc....

[raygun85]

This photo was in my pictures folder, I don't remember what message forum I saved it from so I apologize to the original author in advanced. You can see how the magnetic field is directed through the poles and where the highest concentration is. When you use pole-pieces and bar magnets on the bottom, that is where the most concentration will be. I'll see if I can find (or draw) a diagram of a P-90.

[raygun85]

Here's a P-90 through magnetic viewing paper. I borrowed this from the music electronics forum. Supposedly, the dark area, above what are obviously the pole-pieces, represents the strongest concentration of the magnetic field, with the tone lightening toward the edges, where the field is weaker. Hope this helps shed some more light on this for everyone.